From lee.stanford@eclipsys.com Tue Apr 22 19:17:18 1997 Received: by csres2.cropsci.ncsu.edu (5.61-AIX-1.2/1.0) from [192.41.32.161] with SMTP id AA117810 (for rdkeys, from lee.stanford@eclipsys.com/lee.stanford@eclipsys.com); Tue, 22 Apr 97 19:17:18 GMT Received: from smtp.eclipsnet.com ([199.250.158.26]) by eclipsys.com (8.8.5) id NAA00842; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 13:18:09 -0600 (MDT) From: lee.stanford@eclipsys.com X-Authentication-Warning: eclipsys.com: Host [199.250.158.26] claimed to be smtp.eclipsnet.com Received: from ccMail by smtp.eclipsnet.com (ccMail Link to SMTP R6.00.01) id AA861740450; Tue, 22 Apr 97 15:21:02 -0500 Message-Id: <9704228617.AA861740450@smtp.eclipsnet.com> X-Mailer: ccMail Link to SMTP R6.00.01 Date: Tue, 22 Apr 97 12:17:44 -0500 To: Subject: old glowbugs digests Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="simple boundary" Status: O --simple boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob: Sorry, but I am not a UNIX person, I work with IBM PCs and Windows - Windows/NT. I am using CCmail on my PC, and I would prefer not to have to key in your address manually 31 times if possible. So, I am trying this out. Please let me know if you can handle it easily. If it is a problem I will either send you individual files, (or maybe a diskette in IBM PC/DOS format if you can handle it). I am sending this text message with the first 5 digests as attached files. If I do more at a time the file gets too large. Please give me some feedback. 73, Lee Lee.Stanford@eclipsys.com --simple boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="GLO-POR0.001" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="GLO-POR0.001" GLOWBUGS Digest 1 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Hello Test 123.... by Conard Murray 2) Re: Glowbugs List ready to go --- GREAT! by rdkeys@csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu 3) on line by Duncan Cadd 4) glowbugs protocol suggestion by Stan Skelton 5) glowbugs, 1 toob rigs by Stan Skelton 6) Glowbugs Stan's Idea by Conard Murray 7) Re: glowbugs protocol suggestion by steve@hi.com (Steve Byan) 8) Glowbugs: Subject line by Tom_Jennings 9) Glowbugging tonight anyone? by rdkeys@csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu 10) GB Hello everyone! by "Robert M. Bratcher Jr." 11) Sale or Trade by Bobby Raymer 12) Re: Hello Test 123.... by Jeffrey Herman 13) how to for beginners by Bruce Robertson 14) Re: glowbugs, 1 toob rigs by Jeffrey Herman 15) Glowbugs Power supply by Jeffrey Herman 16) GB: how to for beginners by "James C. Owen, III" 17) RE: how to for beginners by "Gable, Edward M" 18) glowbugs - 1 toob rigs & hand capacitance by Stan Skelton 19) Re: how to for beginners by Steven Wilson 20) Glowbugs-Caution by ashworth@plaza.ds.adp.com (Dennis Ashworth) 21) Re: Glowbugs-Caution by af852@rgfn.epcc.Edu (William R Colbert) 22) Re: Glowbugs Power supply by af852@rgfn.epcc.Edu (William R Colbert) 23) Re: Glowbugs Power supply by mjsilva@ix.netcom.com (michael silva) 24) GLOWBUGS by BOB.LIESENFELD@hamlink.mn.org (BOB LIESENFELD) 25) Re: GLOWBUGS by mjsilva@ix.netcom.com (michael silva) 26) GB: Saying hello by joe@westonia.com (Joseph Cooper) 27) Re: GB: Saying hello by Dave Hockaday 28) Glowbugs - Why ? by Steven Wilson 29) Re: Glowbugs - Why ? by Dave Hockaday 30) Tubes for sale! by darryl.linkow@grinder.com (DARRYL LINKOW) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 08:38:01 -0500 >From: Conard Murray To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Hello Test 123.... Message-ID: <01HWXG00HU4IHSJYLH@tntech.edu> -- [ From: Conard Murray * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- Just testing.... 73 de Conard WS4S ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 11:10:39 -0400 (EDT) >From: rdkeys@csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu To: cfm@tntech.edu, glowbugs@theporch.com Cc: rdkeys@csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu () Subject: Re: Glowbugs List ready to go --- GREAT! Message-ID: <9510271510.AA100292@csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu> > > -- [ From: Conard Murray * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- > > Hello all, > I have volunteered to take the glowbug list, so lets get this thing > rolling! I am new to this list administration stuff, so take it easy on me > at first! This is supposed to be sort of a intersection of both the qrp-l > and boatanchors groups. What I would like to see is a group dedicated to > building with firebottles..not necessarily qrp or qro, just tubes. Stories, > tips, pointers, circuits, parts wanted/for sale and project progress reports > and reviews are encouraged. Sounds like a winner. Now maybe we can get some fellows together to DO some real boatanchoring, rather than just talk about it, and ragwrench the dust bunnies. Welcome aboard to all whos plys these here waters..... May you all have fair winds and following seas on yer watches aboard the list and aboard the voyage into the ether in the wee small hours of a long winter's night. > So, get to it....let's see some good stuff... we have the Hartley Rallye > coming up as soon as a date is set. Anyone interested in the Hartley Rallye, kindly let me know, and I will try to begin to firm up a date, format, etc. I picked up a fine 304TL a few days ago, and managed to dredge up a socket for it. I am debating what toob to use in the next iteration of the fine ol' R.V.L. Hartley. The choices are 833, 304TL, 849/204A, 211, 801, 811, 24G/3C24, 6336, 6080, 6/12SN7, 12A*7, or the quintessential '01 or M or J tubes. I have three finished breadboards all polished up and oiled. One has no panel, and two have black 1/4 inch full height panels mounted. One is about 12x16, one 12x20, and one 12x24. I have a coil made from helical flat strip about 6 inches long and 3 inches in diameter with maybe 25 turns. Ahhh, decisions, decisions..... I want to keep the battery pack down to about 100 volts, and a period tube would need to be the 849 or earlier..... hmmmmmm, I will probably stick with the ol' reliable 211. At 100 volts on the plate in zero bias, it should put out a couple of fine watts, mebbee even three or four.... If I use the 849, I have to remember to mount the toob upside down so the filament dangles properly. Don't wanna take a chance on blowing that precious piece of tungsten. Mebbee I will have to make up a wooden wall-mount panel rack big enuf to hold all that fire in the ol' 849..... Ahhh, shack warming in the winter time! > 72/73 all, de Conard WS4S > cfm@tntech.edu > ws4s@midtenn.net 73/ZUT DE NA4G/Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 16:47:53 +0100 (MET) >From: Duncan Cadd To: glowbugs@theporch.com Cc: dcadd@luc.ac.be Subject: on line Message-ID: <9510271547.AA06832@alpha.luc.ac.be> Greetings, Conard and others (?) from a darkening Diepenbeek in N.E. Belgium! Yes, seems like we're on line, 599 here anyway 8-) Looking for a 6SJ7 eco- type VFO design. Any suggestions ? 73, Duncan ON9CHU / G0UTY G-QRP 8117 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 08:52:10 -0700 (PDT) >From: Stan Skelton To: glowbugs list Subject: glowbugs protocol suggestion Message-ID: HI all...just a small protocol suggestion that will help everyone sort out the traffic...if we could all put the word "glowbugs" as the first word of the subject line, it would make sorting much easier....I'm going to to put this request as the last line of all my messages for the next little while... TtFn...Stan VE7SKT...(use "glowbugs" in subject line) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 08:56:38 -0700 (PDT) >From: Stan Skelton To: glowbugs list Subject: glowbugs, 1 toob rigs Message-ID: Hi all...has anyone built the one tube rigs featured in (I think) Aug or Sept QST magazine?......Advice needed on these...for example, does the chassis have to be aluminum, or can it be galvanized steel??? TtFn...Stan VE7SKT..(use glowbugs in subject line) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 11:08:04 -0500 >From: Conard Murray To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Glowbugs Stan's Idea Message-ID: <01HWXL86L8EAHSKHNL@tntech.edu> -- [ From: Conard Murray * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- Hi All!, I think Stan has a great idea. If everyone would prefix the subject with glowbugs or just GB it would help me out here too! Thanks for the idea Steve! 73 de Conard WS4S ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 12:20:37 -0400 >From: steve@hi.com (Steve Byan) To: sskelton@cln.etc.bc.ca Cc: glowbugs@theporch.com Subject: Re: glowbugs protocol suggestion Message-ID: Hi Stan, My mailer lets me see the headers; I sort on that. Stuff from Glowbugs has the line: Sender: glowbugs@theporch.com in the mail headers, while boatanchors mail has: Sender: boatanchors@theporch.com Not all of the other lists are so friendly in this regard; I have to set up individual filters for each list. There's usually something in the header that I can key on. Would that work for you? Regards, -Steve Steve Byan internet: steve@hi.com Hitachi Computer Products (America), Inc. 1601 Trapelo Road phone: (617) 890-0444 Waltham, MA 02154 FAX: (617) 890-4998 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 12:29:04 -0400 >From: Tom_Jennings To: glowbugs@theporch.com Cc: jennings@eng16.rochny.uspra.abb.com Subject: Glowbugs: Subject line Message-ID: I have seen some other list where the list name is put there by the listserv program. Can this be done here? 73, Tom, kv2x ----------------------------------------------------- Thomas J. Jennings | Tel: (716) 273 7071 Senior Engineer | Fax: (716) 273 7262 ABB Industrial Systems Inc. | Post Office Box 22685 | Rochester, New York 14692-2685 | ----------------------------------------------------- Internet: jennings@jennings.rochny.uspra.abb.com ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 13:05:58 -0400 (EDT) >From: rdkeys@csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu To: glowbugs@theporch.com Cc: rdkeys@csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu () Subject: Glowbugging tonight anyone? Message-ID: <9510271706.AA100605@csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu> For the fun of it I will have some of my boatanchors/glowbugs on tonight on either 3527 or 1802R5 (or however close I can comfortably get to the edge of the band.....(:+}}.....). All are welcome to join in. I will have the Hartley up on 3527 for anyone wishing to QSO one. Time: about dark until whenever I fade into the ether (0600Z or so). 73/ZUT DE NA4G/Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 12:07:21 GMT >From: "Robert M. Bratcher Jr." To: Glowbugs@theporch.com Subject: GB Hello everyone! Message-ID: <199510271207.MAA11448@krypton.netropolis.net> Eudora (windows) gives me the subject with each message so I know what it will be about for private E-mail and one of my lists that can't be set to a digest format (78-L). Everything else comes in a digest with the subjects at the begining except the Nostalgic TV listserv which doesn't have subject headers. I love to build tube transmitters and dropped QRP-L because I didn't see any discussion along those lines. Have done the 6AG7 driving a 6L6WGB rig and now I'm playing around with battery tubes 1U4 driving a pair of 3S4's is my current project in a tri-tet circuit. Glad to see the Glowbugs list finally started! Robert M. Bratcher Jr. E-mail to: bratcher@netropolis.net Beam me up Scotty! (I'm a real Star Trek fan) AND one heck of an old radio nut. Just love those tube type Boatanchors! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 12:26:37 -0500 >From: Bobby Raymer To: glowbugs@theporch.com Subject: Sale or Trade Message-ID: <199510271726.MAA05886@sneezy.midtenn.net> I have a Adzen Pcs-300 two meter ht with extra battary pack,charger,manual the ht is in near mint-condition and works real well,it 10 channel programmable memory.Will sale or trade for a good general coverage receiver. from Bobby Raymer AD4HL Email too braymer@midtenn.net -- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 08:49:49 -1000 >From: Jeffrey Herman To: Conard Murray Subject: Re: Hello Test 123.... Message-ID: So let's get some articles going on here!! 73 from Hawaii, Jeff NH6IL On Fri, 27 Oct 1995, Conard Murray wrote: > -- [ From: Conard Murray * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- > > Just testing.... > 73 de Conard WS4S > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 14:56:23 -0400 (EDT) >From: Bruce Robertson To: glowbugs@theporch.com Subject: how to for beginners Message-ID: A request for the new glowbugs list from one who has never built tube equipment: The difficulty I encounter when considering working up a tube rig is a) designing a power supply and b) knowing how to physically lay out the thing (no pcbs to work with!) Any suggetions? 73, VE3UWL Bruce G. Robertson Dept. of Classics, U. of T. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 08:56:04 -1000 >From: Jeffrey Herman To: Stan Skelton Subject: Re: glowbugs, 1 toob rigs Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Oct 1995, Stan Skelton wrote: > Hi all...has anyone built the one tube rigs featured in (I think) Aug or > Sept QST magazine?......Advice needed on these...for example, does the > chassis have to be aluminum, or can it be galvanized steel??? Heck, Stan, why not make it look authentic and use a piece of oiled pine with Fanestock (sp) clips? It'll look like something right out of the 20's! Boatanchor Bob will tell you how to prepare the wood. 73 from Hawaii, Jeff NH6IL ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 09:12:46 -1000 >From: Jeffrey Herman To: Glowbugs List Subject: Glowbugs Power supply Message-ID: Well, I'll get scolded for this, but I've see lots of 1-2 tube circuits in the older projects books that use the 120VAC right out of the wall (filtered, of course!) for the plate supply. Seems that rectifying 120VAC brings it up to about 200VDC. This is a transformerless supply. For the safety-minded, using to transformers back-to-back will isolate any shock hazzard. Let's see if Bob Keys has built any rigs that use "transformerless" power supplies... Jeff NH6IL ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 15:14:26 -0400 (EDT) >From: "James C. Owen, III" To: glowbugs@theporch.com Subject: GB: how to for beginners Message-ID: <54868.owen@apollo.eeel.nist.gov> In message Fri, 27 Oct 1995 13:59:36 -0500 (CDT), Bruce Robertson writes: > The difficulty I encounter when considering working up a tube rig is a) > designing a power supply and b) knowing how to physically lay out the > thing (no pcbs to work with!) > Any suggetions? > 73, VE3UWL > Look for a lab grade power supply at a hamfest usually $15.00 - $25.00 good for adjustable 0-250 volts at 100-150 ma + filaments. Buy a used Heath HP-23 supply, has a low voltage of 250-300 volts at about 150 ma. High voltage of 750 volts at about 400 ma. Bias voltage of minus 0-130 at a few ma + filaments. Cost will be about $50.00. Get an old handbook and use a design from it for the PS. To build a rig you can do it in breadboard manor. Put osc to left, buffer next (if used) and then final. Keep RF lengths short above about 14 Mhz and if necessary use some shielding between stages. Once again use an older handbook (before about 1965) to see how "they" did it. 73 Jim K4CGY James C. Owen, III National Institute of Standards & Technology (NIST) Bldg 225/B360 Gaithersburg, MD 20899 1-301-975-5623 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 95 15:33:00 DST >From: "Gable, Edward M" To: glowbugs Subject: RE: how to for beginners Message-ID: <3091345D@smtpgate.rfc.comm.harris.com> A request for the new glowbugs list from one who has never built tube equipment: The difficulty I encounter when considering working up a tube rig is a) designing a power supply and b) knowing how to physically lay out the thing (no pcbs to work with!) Any suggetions? 73, VE3UWL Bruce G. Robertson Dept. of Classics, U. of T. ++++++= Hi Bruce: I try to lay out things in chunks of like circuitry; PS, RF, AF, Control circuits. Then in order of circuit flow keeping in mind required isolation and shielding. Some ideas: 1. Power supply towards back, out of way. Keep sources of hum (pwr Xfmr) away from audio circuits. 2. AF circuits away from RF, espcially in TX's. Can also go towards back of chassis. 3. I like to put RF up front, near panel, running left to right in a very conventional manner. This leaves short runs of wire to front panel mounted variables and other controls. Short, direct and symetrical runs of RF lines often dictate how the caps and inductors end up. 4. For RF isolation it's nice to have high power stuff on top of chassis and lower power stages on bottom. Keep in mind shielding of high power for RF and Safety. 5. Keep in mind ease of maintenance and troubleshooting, too. Guess who is going have to work in it !! It's easy to build in metering points, test points as you go along. Look at some old QST's or handbooks. There is some good info there. Some of those OT's had their stuff together. Keep 'em glowing Ed K2MP @ Rochester emg@rfc.comm.harris.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 12:38:45 -0700 (PDT) >From: Stan Skelton To: glowbugs list Subject: glowbugs - 1 toob rigs & hand capacitance Message-ID: Hi Jeff et al: ...I don't have the artical in front of me but I do remember that the receiver used a 3A4 tube and the tx used a 1A4 tube..... They were very firm about using an aluminum chassis for the receiver to avoid "hand capacitance",...maybe there is another way to avoid it and still use a wooden "frame"???? TtFn...Stan VE7SKT..(use glowbugs in subject line) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 13:41:58 -0700 (PDT) >From: Steven Wilson To: Bruce Robertson Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: how to for beginners Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Oct 1995, Bruce Robertson wrote: > A request for the new glowbugs list from one who has never built tube > equipment: > The difficulty I encounter when considering working up a tube rig is a) > designing a power supply and b) knowing how to physically lay out the > thing (no pcbs to work with!) Bruce it is always a good idea to layout a RF circuit in a stright line just like the circuit diagram. Want to eliminate feedback paths. I also like to chose various colors for different type of circuit wires. I use blue or red for +V, yellow for grid circuits, white for filiments, and black for gound. I expect their use to be a standard and maybe one of the other old timers will provide that info. Determine how much power you want to run and build a power supply to suit. You will want a 6 and perhaps a 12 volt filament supply (AC), this is easy RS has those type transformers. If you can find a real old TV set you can rob it of the power transformer for filament and B+ supply. You will want I would expect a 250 to 450 vdc supply. Several basic circuits in the ARRL handbook. 10 uf or more for the output filter for a simple CW rig. Problem will be in finding the high voltage caps, but you can get them from Mouser and DigiKey. One can use low ohm resistors in place of the series chokes (chokes are hard to find now days). Most audio output and sweep tubes are good for about 25 to 50 watts and most of them will operate with a 350 vdc supply at about 100 ma. Might find some 1625's at a hamfest or Fair Radio. They are 12 v filament 807's. If you can find a couple of 6L6's that is what we used in the 50's, get a couple use one for osc and one for the final. so 1) pick power input (we always use input with tubes hi) 2) select tube (those Russian 6L6's are about $4 ea at Fair) 3) select power for the tube used. 4) select rectifier for power (5U4 will normall work) or use diodes 5) select osc tube, most IF tubes will work for the osc I like 6AG7 6) most osc circuits will work with just about any tube 7) calculate grid resistor for the final tube. This is about the only math you will have to do. 8) chose a coil and variable cap for the band you want. pick one that has been tried in one of the handbood rigs. I like to use 140 mmf for 80 meters, 50 - 100 mm for 40, 25- 50 for 20 meters, etc. 9) if you want to design your own coils the handbook does a real good job of providing all of the equations. simple with todays calcualtors to do Be sure to include terminals for putting the receiver in standby when transmitting on your xmit/rcvr switch. if you have any questions just ask... I am sure one of us on here can figure it out. de stan ak0b e-mail via randyw@crl.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 95 14:02:04 -0700 >From: ashworth@plaza.ds.adp.com (Dennis Ashworth) To: glowbugs@theporch.com Subject: Glowbugs-Caution Message-ID: <9510272102.AA26628@adphdw20> Browsing through the early postings to this new service, I sense there are many QRP'ers who have experienced the joys and rewards of building solid state kits, and are now interested in exploring tube radios. Great! However, we probably shouldn't go too far down the road without a reminder to us all, newbies or pro's, that personal safety (specifically shock hazard) is a whole new concern with tube technologies, than the low voltage kit building. I cut my teeth in tube technologies (and yes, I had 2 terms of slide-rule in college). However, the past 20 years, I've worked almost exclusively with low voltage solid state technologies. I have developed many habits which are great at 12 volts, but potentially deadly at plate potentials. How many of us have touched powered solid state devices to sense heat, or moved that tilting capacitor to the vertical with our fingers? These are almost automatic, subconscious actions for me, which can be very "awakening" if employed when working with tube potentials. I've been there .... done that . and if someone had T-shirts ... I'd be wearing it now! Please enjoy, but be careful! I don't mean to insult anyone's intellegence ... just a heads up and some friendly advice from someone whose been there. Now, who remembers how to keep a 6L6 RF amp from oscillating and has a winding diagram for a 40M output coil wound on a toilet paper tube? Dennis, K7FL ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 95 17:06:38 MDT >From: af852@rgfn.epcc.Edu (William R Colbert) To: glowbugs@theporch.com Subject: Re: Glowbugs-Caution Message-ID: <9510272306.AA24255@rgfn.epcc.Edu> Good points. One other is always work around these pretty lights with one hand in the pocket. Don't draw an arc with your number 2 lead pencil from the tank coil, and don't wiggle any metal tubes in the socket to get a better seating in the socket - 300V dc flows thru that metal to the fingers better that any other type capacitor. 73 and have fun. Ray, W5XE, El Paso ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 95 16:42:26 MDT >From: af852@rgfn.epcc.Edu (William R Colbert) To: glowbugs@theporch.com Subject: Re: Glowbugs Power supply Message-ID: <9510272242.AA17043@rgfn.epcc.Edu> Well, I seem to remember that some of the tubes used were like the multi-section 117L7 that could be used with the wall voltage as filament and the plate voltage was rectified from the same source Also, I think there was a series of little qrp rigs, camper special and the zipper bag special by Ed Marriner, W6BLZ (now W6XM) that used the same principle. Another circuit uses the 35W4 rectifier, 50L6 or 50C5 osc/amp - I think this list is going to be fun. I plan to try and get one of my HT-18 qrp rigs up and running on the various skeds. I think tonite on the 3527, I will have to use my new HT-32B with the drive cranked down. 73 all Ray, W5XE, El Paso af852@rgfn.epcc.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 17:27:46 -0700 >From: mjsilva@ix.netcom.com (michael silva) To: glowbugs@theporch.com Subject: Re: Glowbugs Power supply Message-ID: <199510280027.RAA09410@ix10.ix.netcom.com> Jeff wrote: > >Well, I'll get scolded for this, but I've see lots of 1-2 tube circuits >in the older projects books that use the 120VAC right out of the wall >(filtered, of course!) for the plate supply.... And, of course, there are 117v filament tubes which beg for such minimal treatment -- both the 117L7GT and the 117N7GT are rectifier/beam power combinations, the BP section being rated at 5-6 watts plate diss. Be careful, use isolation transformers if you want, but have some fun! Question: will a GFI outlet provide adequate protection to users of such rigs? 73, Mike, KK6GM ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 00:48:40 -0100 >From: BOB.LIESENFELD@hamlink.mn.org (BOB LIESENFELD) To: glowbugs@theporch.com Subject: GLOWBUGS Message-ID: <814845884.AA04031@hamlink.mn.org> Hi gang, Just a story from my past....Growing up in the early 60s as I did, I was at an interesting crossroads in terms of tubes vs transistors. I had a few semi's to play with, but wanted a triode in the worst way to actually see that plate current change with grid bias etc. So I take myself down to the local electronic supply house and sheepishly ask them to sell me a "triode". "What number son?" "There's thousands of 'em!" Of course that scared me right outa there... Wish there had been somebody behind that counter that had been in my shoes as a kid, and had the sense to plop down a 12AX7 or it's varied kin... I did finally get my feet wet, (and fingers *bit*) with a Knight T-50 with it's dear old 807 final.... Seems like yesterday. 72 Bob WB0POQ Technology is OUT of control..... ---NoSnail v1.17 ******************************************************************* HAM>link< RBBS - Serving the Amateur Radio Community Since 1983 - 612/HAM-0000 v.34 Ham Radio Spoken Here!! - 612/HAM-1010 v.32b Reply to sender @ hamlink.mn.org ******************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 00:32:53 -0700 >From: mjsilva@ix.netcom.com (michael silva) To: glowbugs@theporch.com Subject: Re: GLOWBUGS Message-ID: <199510280732.AAA03985@ix11.ix.netcom.com> I really enjoy stories such as Bob's (WB0POQ), and I hope they will be welcomed on the new list. I bought my first 807 from a local surplus shop around 1970 but didn't have a rig to put it in, so I just connected it to a filament transformer and watched it glow in the dark (is there anyone out there who didn't love turning out the lights?) My breadboard back then was an open-fronted box on which I had screwed a hundred or more half-inch pieces of spring material for connectors (don't remember where I got that idea). I built a sweep-tube phono amplifier on that board, and would turn the volume up full, turn on the power and run outside to hear how loud the music got as the tube warmed up. Wierd but harmless. 73, Mike, KK6GM ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Oct 95 10:16 EST >From: joe@westonia.com (Joseph Cooper) To: glowbugs@theporch.com Subject: GB: Saying hello Message-ID: Good Day all, and congrats on the setting up of this group. I have been looking forward to it. First off, to introduce myself, I have a strong interest in 'tube' technology that comes out of several areas that I work in with my hobbies. In addition to ham radio, I also like to collect old radios (I won't call them antique because they are late 1940's to early 1960's) that use tube tech. For my test equipment I have also focused on 'vintage' rather than contemporary. So as a result my test bench looks like a museum. The tubes themselves are of interest to me as a work of industrial design. I have started to collect different examples from different time periods simply for their own worth. The boxes that the tubes come in are also of interest to me, particularly the 1920's and '30's. I any of you have the current Antique Electronic Supply catalog, the examples of the boxes on the cover is a good sample of what I mean. Now the real question is; Why are we here ? Why not just run a boatanchor with the carrier set to low power ? Why use a 'obsolete' technology when solid state is the accepted (and certainly easier) method ? Here are some suggestion regarding a 'working definition' of who we are. First off, regarding QRP and what it is. Let me propose a defintion (and if there is a better one I more than happy to hear it and let it be the one used). QRP is the achivementof high quality two way radio transmissions through the use of simple but efficient curcuit designs for both the transmitter and receiver. 'Glowbug' QRP is the achivement of the above through the efficent and safe use of vacum tube technology to reach the same ends. So there is our 'mission statement' if you like. My of project at this time is the completion of a very nice little kit based on the 50C5 power tube that is put out by N2EDF. This may be a good starting point for many of you as it is a 'bread board' design which requires no special tools or the use of a metal box. For my reciever I am restoring a Halicrafter S38. So anyway, I do hope that the 'old timers' will help us young pups to understand tubes a bit better. 73's for now =================================================================== * Joseph Cooper-VE3FMQ QTH-East York-near Toronto Ontario Canada * * Interests are:-Lowfer/VLF/BCB Radio-Woodworking-Steam Railroads * * -Nikola Tesla-Antique Radios-Crystal Radios-Travel-Burmese Cats * * FAX (416) 423-7782 9:00pm to 5:00pm EDST Monday To Friday Only * =================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Oct 95 10:34:18 EDT >From: Dave Hockaday To: glowbugs@theporch.com Subject: Re: GB: Saying hello Message-ID: <9510281434.AA22343@merlin.nando.net> Hi to all on the group. My name is Dave, call is WB4IUY. I've been a ham for about 21 years, and still love to tinker with the tube stuff. I'm new on I-net, having been on LLBBS hubs like Fido, ArNet, etc for a few years. I'm elated to see just such a maillist as Glowbugs, since I like to build with tubes from the old handbooks, etc. I'm looking forward to use of this list! 73 de Dave WB4IUY ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 13:32:59 -0700 (PDT) >From: Steven Wilson To: joe@westonia.com Cc: glowbugs@theporch.com Subject: Glowbugs - Why ? Message-ID: Joe I think you had some very interesting thoughts. But I doubt if you really get an answer to the WHY. We could ask the same thing about amateur radio today... It is also obsolute. It is very difficult today to do anything in ham radio that has not been done already in the commerical field. This is not true of the past... In the 50's it was SSb and moon bounce, the 60's had a lot of HF RTTY detection experimenting and 70's were the start of packet... But today technology is moving so fast that one see the experimenting moving to computers, internet, and SHF. The work not longer being done by the amateur in breaking new ground. Yes, many of us playing with these new technologies are amateurs, but the work is being done primarily by commerical firms. However, a lot of us like to build. A wood worker still builds many items that can be done cheaper by commerical firms, and sometimes better. I design the latest embedded micro-controller equipment for a living, but have been building solid state QRP gear for several years just for the fun of it. Most of my QRP gear is not as good as my commerical built ham equipment but it is just as much fun to operate. I agree with you I think solid state gear is easier to build than tube gear. Built my first tube transmitter in about 1954 a 6AG7/6146. Built my latest superhet solid state receiver about a month ago. So my answer to why... Is we are builders... de stan ak0b e-mail via randyw@crl.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Oct 95 18:40:36 EDT >From: Dave Hockaday To: glowbugs@theporch.com Subject: Re: Glowbugs - Why ? Message-ID: <9510282240.AA07209@merlin.nando.net> A>Joe I think you had some very interesting thoughts. But I doubt if you >really get an answer to the WHY. We could ask the same thing about >amateur radio today... It is also obsolute. It is very difficult today >to do anything in ham radio that has not been done already in the >commerical field. This is not true of the past... In the 50's it was >SSb and moon bounce, the 60's had a lot of HF RTTY detection >experimenting and 70's were the start of packet... But today technology >is moving so fast that one see the experimenting moving to computers, >internet, and SHF. The work not longer being done by the amateur in >breaking new ground. > >Yes, many of us playing with these new technologies are amateurs, but the >work is being done primarily by commerical firms. > >However, a lot of us like to build. A wood worker still builds many >items that can be done cheaper by commerical firms, and sometimes better. > >I design the latest embedded micro-controller equipment for a living, but >have been building solid state QRP gear for several years just for the >fun of it. Most of my QRP gear is not as good as my commerical built ham >equipment but it is just as much fun to operate. I agree with you I >think solid state gear is easier to build than tube gear. Built my first >tube transmitter in about 1954 a 6AG7/6146. > >Built my latest superhet solid state receiver about a month ago. > >So my answer to why... Is we are builders... > >de stan ak0b >e-mail via randyw@crl.com > Sorry for the long quote, but for the benefit of others who haven't seen it...I think that was very well put. I, too, am involved in high tech development on a daily basis...from phase doppler particle analyzers, to PLC's and industrial PCs...I still feel the need to build hollow state projects, tinker in areas that have been long since perfected, and simply enjoy the magic of radio. I guess we really are builders... 73 de WB4IUY ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Oct 95 15:13:00 -0700 >From: darryl.linkow@grinder.com (DARRYL LINKOW) To: glowbugs@theporch.com Subject: Tubes for sale! Message-ID: <8B3E391.0001002F7F.uuout@grinder.com> 10/27/95 Hello all and thanks for reading this message. I have the following tubes for sale. If you are interested in one, some or all of the following tubes, leave me a message and I will be happy to quote you a price. QUANTITY TUBE# PRICE ~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ 1 1R5 1 1U5 1 2AV2 1 3A3A 1 3A3C 2 3S4 1 41 $15.00 1 5EA8 1 6AC7 1 6AG5 1 6AG7 3 6AL5 1 6AQ5A 8 6AU6 1 6AU8A 1 6BA6 1 6BK4B $25.00 1 6BQ6 1 6CB6 1 6CL3 1 6EW6 1 6FQ7/6CG7 $5.00 1 6GF7 1 6GH8A 1 6GM6 2 6GU7 3 6HZ6 2 6JC6A 1 6JE6A $35.00 2 6JE6C/6LQ6 $35.00 ea. 1 6JH6 1 6KA8 1 6KE8 1 6LF8 1 6LQ6 $35.00 1 6SK7 3 6SN7 1 6T8 1 6U7 2 6U8 1 6W4 1 12AU7 $3.00 2 12AU7A $3.00 4 12AV6 5 12BA6 4 12BE6 1 12BY7A $10.00 1 12DT8 1 12SA7 2 12SQ7 1 19T8 1 25L6 1 35L6 3 35W4 1 50B5 4 50C5 1 75 2 80 $5.00 ea. For a price quote, leave me a message with tube numbers, quantity, etc. and I will get back to you. 73, Darryl KE6IHA Internet Email: darryl.linkow@grinder.com --- * OLX 2.2 * Darryl Linkow (818)346-5278 9 am - 5 pm PDT ------------------------------ End of GLOWBUGS Digest 1 ************************ --simple boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="GLO-POR0.002" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="GLO-POR0.002" GLOWBUGS Digest 2 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) GLOWBUGS by rac@usa.net 2) Just some thoughts by "Robert M. Bratcher Jr." 3) Re: GLOWBUGS by joe@westonia.com (Joseph Cooper) 4) GB:Re: Glowbugs - Why ? by joe@westonia.com (Joseph Cooper) 5) "Gallopin' Gertie" Works! (fwd) by Jeffrey Herman 6) GLOWBUGS by BOB.LIESENFELD@hamlink.mn.org (BOB LIESENFELD) 7) GLOBUGS by k7yha@ix.netcom.com (Richard H. Arland ) 8) GB: Who didn't grow up on tubes? by mjsilva@ix.netcom.com (michael silva) 9) GB Re: Just some thoughts by mjsilva@ix.netcom.com (michael silva) 10) Re: GB: Who didn't grow up on tubes? by joe@westonia.com (Joseph Cooper) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 18:25:03 -0600 >From: rac@usa.net To: glowbugs@theporch.com Subject: GLOWBUGS Message-ID: <199510290025.SAA26305@mail.usa.net> <---- Begin Included Message ----> >(is there anyone out there who didn't love turning out the lights?) My <---- End Included Message ----> Yeah, me too. In fact, as I write this I sit here with only my desk lamp on (7 watts), the Hallicrafters S-40A a'glow playing "Big Band Saturday Nite" from WQEW (1560), and the soft glow from my ActionNote 880C screen. Just finished another glow in the dark QSO on 80 using the HW-16 at about 25 watts out. Boy did I get a surprise the other day when I first put it on the air to test an isolated keyer interface for my RAC CodeBoy keyer. I used the HG-10 VFO and expected some chirp and drift. NOPE, no chirp, no drift. The sig sounds pretty good on the Corsair II. Surprise, surprise! I've had a great time with the HW-16 the last few nights. This is the first I have used the HW-16 and am very pleasently surprised at it's performance. Next project is to get the Apache and Mohawk combo installed. That should be fun. I'm hoping to get them to work full break-in. Anyone done it? -73- -Lee WA3FIY- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 22:42:54 GMT >From: "Robert M. Bratcher Jr." To: glowbugs@theporch.com Subject: Just some thoughts Message-ID: <199510282242.WAA18183@krypton.netropolis.net> I'm 36 now and have loved tubes since my teens in the 70's. Found my first Acturas Blue tube last weekend a 24A. Lit that puppy up and turned out the lights. Man what a nice glow under that blue glass! Got the 1U4 driving two 3S4's tri tet working too. Nice 80 & 40 QRP rig at 2 watts. Didn't think battery tubes could put that much power out. Next rig is a pair of 50C5's in a crystal oscillator curcuit I saw in Radio Electronics. Robert M. Bratcher Jr. E-mail to: bratcher@netropolis.net Beam me up Scotty! (I'm a real Star Trek fan) AND one heck of an old radio nut. Just love those tube type Boatanchors! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Oct 95 01:24 EST >From: joe@westonia.com (Joseph Cooper) To: rac@usa.net Cc: glowbugs@theporch.com Subject: Re: GLOWBUGS Message-ID: >Yeah, me too. In fact, as I write this I sit here with only my desk >lamp on (7 watts), the Hallicrafters S-40A a'glow playing "Big Band >Saturday Nite" from WQEW (1560), and the soft glow from my >ActionNote 880C screen. Just finished another glow in the dark QSO >on 80 using the HW-16 at about 25 watts out. > I listening to the same show from the same station tonigh while on the air myself tonight. It was comming in at 59 in Toronto using a Motorola 65x13a which I picked up for about $2.00 at an Antique Radio meet. The 65x13a is a nice wooden BC radio from the late 40's with 6 tubes. Its an amazing set for BCB-DX. I picked up a GE 'Super Radio' that was on sale to check out its ability to do DX and it simply cannot pick up what the Motorola can, even off the same antenna. This is the reason why I'm checking out tubes again, 'cause I'm just not sold on the idea that solid state=better than tubes. =================================================================== * Joseph Cooper-VE3FMQ QTH-East York-near Toronto Ontario Canada * * Interests are:-Lowfer/VLF/BCB Radio-Woodworking-Steam Railroads * * -Nikola Tesla-Antique Radios-Crystal Radios-Travel-Burmese Cats * * FAX (416) 423-7782 9:00pm to 5:00pm EDST Monday To Friday Only * =================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Oct 95 01:36 EST >From: joe@westonia.com (Joseph Cooper) To: wb4iuy@nando.net Cc: glowbugs@theporch.com Subject: GB:Re: Glowbugs - Why ? Message-ID: Interesting stuff snipped for space ................ I, too, am involved in high tech >development on a daily basis...from phase doppler particle analyzers, to >PLC's and industrial PCs...I still feel the need to build hollow state >projects, tinker in areas that have been long since perfected, and simply >enjoy the magic of radio. I guess we really are builders... I allways get into trouble when I use the rhetorical 'Why ?'. And what comes back it the correct answer 'Because', which in this case is 'Because we build'. How right that one is. Like yourself, my day job involves 'leading edge' PC computer work in the fax/communication field. As a result it is impossible for me to have computers as a hobby. But on the other hand I do not consider Tube technology 'Low Tech' either. It simply represents a particular level of technological achievement. Consider this; The Canadian designed and built Avro Arrow fighter bomber in 1959 which was capable of over mach2.(Many claim that it was the most advanced aircraft of its type in its day) Its 'fly by wire' system was based entirly on tube technology. The Russian MIG fighter has consistently used tube technology for its avionics up to the present day. 'Official' sources made statements to the effect that it was an example of how far behind the design was, but 'privately' stated the use of tubes was not necessarily inferior to solid state (See JANE'S books on aviation for more details). Consider the current resurgence in the use of tubes in high end audio. An 'old' tube based Machintosh amplifier is still one of the most sought after pieces for the serious audiophile. There is a high end store near me that is doing a booming business selling restored tube amps and tuners from the 1960's and 70's (I used to go there and use their tube tester before I picked up a portible one for myself). And lets talk about the design of the vacume tube as an example of industrial craft... =================================================================== * Joseph Cooper-VE3FMQ QTH-East York-near Toronto Ontario Canada * * Interests are:-Lowfer/VLF/BCB Radio-Woodworking-Steam Railroads * * -Nikola Tesla-Antique Radios-Crystal Radios-Travel-Burmese Cats * * FAX (416) 423-7782 9:00pm to 5:00pm EDST Monday To Friday Only * =================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 20:28:49 -1000 >From: Jeffrey Herman To: Glowbugs List Subject: "Gallopin' Gertie" Works! (fwd) Message-ID: The Boatanchors gang has a Hartley Design xmtr "contest" going on - here's an article from one of the builders: --------------------Forwarded Message--------------------- Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 14:35:51 -1000 >From: TOM.A.ADAMS@mail.admin.wisc.edu To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: "Gallopin' Gertie" Works! to:boatanchors@theporch.com Greetings, Fellow Hartley Happening Participants! I am pleased to announce that the K9TA entry in this august event has been completed, and is currently undergoing a few final shakedown adjustments! It's permanent power supply is under construction, pending finding a couple of good 1930's vintage filter capacitors. The rig is a single UX-245, or UX-210, depending on if the Atwater Kent power transformer for the permanent supply has a 7.5 VAC filiment winding. The rig was tested last night on a bench supply. Virtually all major components are salvaged "period" parts; I'm still looking for a replacement for the grid leak resistor. After finding a suitable spot for the cathode feedback tap on the copper tubing tank coil the rig took off like a goosed gazelle, generating a clean, DC note on the 80 metre ham band. The design is a (modified by K9TA) shunt fed Hartley oscillator. For those who are still working on thier rigs, I would highly commend the shunt fed arrangement to you; a standard Hartley circuit will make BOTH sides of the tank tuning capacitor HOT with B+ voltage! I would further commend to you a through study of George Grammer article "Rotten Signals; How to Cure Them" (November, 1930 QST) for an excellent critique of how to make a simple oscillator rig sound good. I'm still into it to put a few finishing touches on ol' Gallopin' Gertie; she got her name by her tendency to produce a CW note that sounds like a whooping crane in the throes of mating! This set explores horizons of frequency instability that few have ever considered, and if I hook her to an antenna without curing it she'll draw Official Observer cards like a magnet! With a '10 plugged in, and 300 VDC on the plate, I am getting an input power of approximately 20 watts, if loaded for maximum output. A rough estimate on the lamp dummy load says perhap 10 or 12 watts output. As Grammer says tho, an oscillator rig can't be tuned for max output without getting an extremely unstable note; backing loading off to about 9 watts input results in a much more stable note, but still not acceptably so. I used a grid leak for initial tests of 47K, 2 watts. I've got a suspicion that this is WAY too big; to get oscillation I had to tap about 75% up the coil! My intention is to try about a third of that value, say 15K 2 watts, and reposition the coil tap for less feedback. Hopefully this will reduce current flow thru some of those old mica caps, and reduce the drift as well as reduce the chirp. Also, something wierd happened when I fired up. I used a "pet" tube I've been hoarding for this project, a '10 with a white, Isolantite base and rounded globe. This critter is branded as being made by the DeForest Audion Company! When I hit the key for the first time, I got the STRANGEST reaction in the tube I've ever seen. I've seen gassy tubes before, and they usually glow blue. THIS critter developed a milky, white / yellow haze that clung closely to the plate! A getter is mounted right next to the plate, and I think the heat caused it to go to work again, because the milky glow gradually became less and less as I fiddled with the transmitter. Hey gang, I've had a BLAST hunting for parts, putting this thing together, and getting it running! I would strongly recommend it to ANYBODY who needs a break from microprocessor controlled riceboxes, computers, and the like. The regenerative receiver comes next; I've already got the breadboard stained and varnished! 73's, Mr. T., K9TA ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 23:25:20 -0100 >From: BOB.LIESENFELD@hamlink.mn.org (BOB LIESENFELD) To: glowbugs@theporch.com Subject: GLOWBUGS Message-ID: <814921775.AA04034@hamlink.mn.org> Hi all, Another story from the log..... Back about 25+ years ago, as a young ham with an XYL, 1 harmonic, and another on the way, I had, shall we say, *no* money. I did however have my trusty DX 60B and HQ110 rigs. These two BAs are probably responsible for my love today of CW! I digress.... At that time I was obsessed with RF stage gain; the more the better. No mater that the intercept point might be -60dBm, I wanted gain! Not having any money to spend, I had to make do. So, I robbed an 12AU7 out of something in my junk box, a pot for cathode bias, and wound a coil on an empty toilet paper tube (lots of those with a baby in the house). In those days it was easy to find a 365pF variable, so I had my triode RF amp. I went inside the Hammarlund and pulled out B+ for the plate and 12 VAC for the filament. I knew from previous homebrewing (read smoke) that I could not just let my creation hang out with B+ floating around, so I cast around for a "chassis". I settled on an old cardboard shoebox. I simply poked the pins of the bulb through the lid, and cut widely spaced holes for the "goesinta" and "goesouta". The B+ and filament wires went in the back. I can vividly recall struggling unsuccessfully to solder leads to the pins on the tube, and finally just wrapped fine bare wire around each pin as tightly as possible, taping the wires down in a radial pattern. It was beautiful. I did not have any spare coax, so I just used more bell wire to connect to the antenna screw terminals on the RX. The moment of truth... The filament in the jug glowed....No smoke.... tuned the 110 to 20 meters..I could hear SSB QSOs.... Slowly I turned the cathode pot down...As I got near minimum resistance the noise level came *way* up. Tuning the variable in the parallel tank plate load brought it up even more. The QSOs must have rattled the windows..... I then spent the next few days swapping this creature in and out of the antenna line, which was no mean feat with no relay, to prove to myself how much "gain" it had. The S/N in all likelihood went down, and who can guess how many parasitics this thing was throwing off, but I was one proud ham. I had built one fine RF amp with a triode, something the venerable Handbook said could not be easily done (something about oscillation.... :-) ). Must be my widely separated leads to the tube pins I thought. At the I dreamed of Collins and the like, and felt a bit sorry for myself that I had to make do like this.....Now I look back on those simple days and sigh...... 72 Bob WB0POQ P.S. Sorry for the poor formatting here, not sure what's going on. ---NoSnail v1.17 ******************************************************************* HAM>link< RBBS - Serving the Amateur Radio Community Since 1983 - 612/HAM-0000 v.34 Ham Radio Spoken Here!! - 612/HAM-1010 v.32b Reply to sender @ hamlink.mn.org ******************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Oct 1995 08:49:47 -0800 >From: k7yha@ix.netcom.com (Richard H. Arland ) To: glowbugs@theporch.com Subject: GLOBUGS Message-ID: <199510291649.IAA06314@ix6.ix.netcom.com> Hi Gang: Now for my two cents worth: My name is Rich Arland, Callsign: K7YHA. Licensed since 1963 (as KN7YHA). Been a QRPer since 1965 (ARCI # 2388). Love tube technology....started investigating what shocked me at at 8 yrs old after receiving a "ZAP!" from Dad's old Arvin Sivler Prince console AM BCB/SW radio. Since that time, I have rebuilt that radio twice....using new electrolytics each time (damn capacitors...never get any life out of 'em!) Currently have a Hallicrafters SX-130 that is undergoing restoration (picked it up for $30 at the York, PA fest last month). It's in excellent cosmetic condx but needs a restring of both dial cords and a realighment. Past restorations include a Zenith R-600 Transoceanic (circa about 1954) and am currently restoring a Zenith Global (a companion AM BCB.SW RX, built in very limited numbers in 1946, to the Transoceanic of that same year). The book by Cones & Bryant on the history of Zenith and the Transoceanic list it as extremely rare....they don't have a picture of it in the book, but I have one in the shack! Joe Cooper, VE3FMQ, in an earlier posting hinted at the Russian's use of tube technology on th MiG series of fighters/interceptors. Let me tell you from experience (I was in the 5th AF TOC when Lt. Belinko flew his MiG-25 into Hakadote (sp) airport in north-central Japan in 1976) the Russians did this for a reason...among others: EMP. The Foxbat (and other combat aircraft of that era) were well suited to fly and fight in a post nuclear environment. Something the USAF at first laughted at and then took very seriously. To show you how well the JASDF F-4 Phantoms reacted to Belinko's interdiction of Japanese airspace, they overflew him at least twice on his inbound leg without ever seeing him! So much for state-of-the-art "lookdown-shootdown" radar! 73 es look forward to reading the postings on this list. rich K7YHA ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Oct 1995 09:44:00 -0800 >From: mjsilva@ix.netcom.com (michael silva) To: glowbugs@theporch.com Subject: GB: Who didn't grow up on tubes? Message-ID: <199510291744.JAA01471@ix2.ix.netcom.com> Hi (again), I've noticed that the folks who have given us anecdotes from their past all "grew up" on/with tubes, just like I did. I'd like to hear from any younger (knock it off, I'm only 41!) tube fans who discovered tubes after they became "obsolete", and find out what the attraction was in those cases. I know you're out there, so tell us your story. 73, Mike, KK6GM ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Oct 1995 10:17:24 -0800 >From: mjsilva@ix.netcom.com (michael silva) To: glowbugs@theporch.com Subject: GB Re: Just some thoughts Message-ID: <199510291817.KAA03863@ix7.ix.netcom.com> >Next rig is a pair of 50C5's in >a crystal oscillator curcuit I saw in Radio Electronics. > Coincidentally I discovered some 50L6s in my stash last night. Two of them driven by a 12SK7 should make a nice rig, and the filament voltages just about add up to the magic 120. The real reason I mention this is that there are a lot of tubes out there using other than the standard 6 and 12 volt heater voltages, and often they are both cheaper and more available than the "standards". I think these "oddballs" can be a great way for anybody without a stash to pick up some tubes to fiddle with. Just about any combination of these oddballs can be run off a readily-available low-voltage transformer (12 or 24 or whatever volts) and a resistor or two (also readily available). Just use the specified heater voltages AND currents and string them together in whatever series-parallel combination works, with a resistor to absorb whatever voltage or current is left (not a very technical explanation, I realize!). So if you see a bag of oddballs going cheap (the sellers know they're oddballs too!) don't be afraid to pick them up and start them glowin'. 73, Mike, KK6GM ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Oct 95 14:59 EST >From: joe@westonia.com (Joseph Cooper) To: glowbugs@theporch.com Subject: Re: GB: Who didn't grow up on tubes? Message-ID: Mile said; >I'd like to hear from any younger (knock it off, I'm only 41!) tube fans who >discovered tubes after they became "obsolete", and find out what the attraction was in >those cases. I know you're out there, so tell us your story. I fit into the young crowd being 'only' 44 myself. Actually I droped by a friend of mine yesterday. He had a box of old tubes that he wanted to give to me as he had no use for them (he picks up dead military gear for the switches...and he was thinking of throwing away the tubes because he had no use for them). Anyway his kids (6 or 7ish) see the tubes and go 'wow, what are those things'. First time they had ever seen such things. Now whats really interesting about this is that these kids can 1) both program and run their TV/VCR and 2) operate Several different types of computer [its how they do their homework]. On the other hand, no self respecting 20 year old who is either a) plays a guitar in a rock band or b) has a $10,000 stereo system, will not know about tube technology. Just wait, the 'younger' crowd will be telling us all about tubes in about 5 years. '73 de VE3FMQ ------------------------------ End of GLOWBUGS Digest 2 ************************ --simple boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="GLO-POR0.003" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="GLO-POR0.003" GLOWBUGS Digest 3 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) glowbug breadboard socket by doonan@cordmc.dnet.etn.com (DENNIS DOONAN X6916 (KG9DO)) 2) Re: Glowbugging tonight anyone? by rdkeys@csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu 3) GLOWBUGS: one tube rigs by Stan Skelton 4) Re: glowbugs - 1 toob rigs & hand capacitance by rdkeys@csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu 5) GLOWBUGS: Build a rig from a TV set? by Stan Skelton 6) Re: Glowbugs Power supplys by rdkeys@csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu 7) Re: GLOWBUGS: Build a rig from a TV set? by Bob Roehrig 8) Re: GLOWBUGS: one tube rigs by Stan Skelton 9) Re: GLOWBUGS: Build a rig from a TV set? by mjsilva@ix.netcom.com (michael silva) 10) Hartleying tonight anyone? by rdkeys@csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu 11) Re: GLOWBUGS: Build a rig from a TV set? by Jeffrey Herman 12) Re: GLOWBUGS: Build a rig from a TV set? by Bob Roehrig 13) GLOWBUGS www bibliography by Bruce Robertson ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 08:15:22 -0500 >From: doonan@cordmc.dnet.etn.com (DENNIS DOONAN X6916 (KG9DO)) To: "glowbugs@theporch.com"@WHQST1.dnet.etn.com Cc: DOONAN@etn.com Subject: glowbug breadboard socket Message-ID: <9510301315.AA14624@etn.com> Hello gang, I take a weekend off, and this list gets off to a great start. Good work and thanks to all involved. I found a socket that may be of some interest. It is a socket for panel mounting and connecting an octal base relay. The octal device plugs in and screw-terminals around the outside connect to the pins. I found mine this weekend at AxMan Surplus in St Paul MN (612.646.8653). They cost $2 each. Anyway, my idea was that it may be a quick and dirty way to wire up a 6L6 transmitter without doing much soldering. The connectors look good and I am sure it will handle the voltage and currents involved. In fact, it probably woulde be pretty simple to mount one on a breadboard panel and more-or-less permanantely wire up the supporting circuits. 73 de Dennis, KG9DO doonan@cordmc.dnet.etn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 11:43:44 -0500 (EST) >From: rdkeys@csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu To: k7yha@ix.netcom.com (Richard H. Arland) Cc: rdkeys@csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu () Subject: Re: Glowbugging tonight anyone? Message-ID: <9510301643.AA100653@csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu> > Boatanchor Bob: > > Might have known I'd find you here. > > You are my hero.....Thanks for the wonderful inputs on antennas about a > year or so ago on qrp-l. I use parts of them in the electronics class I > teach. Thanks! I am honored by your thoughts. I am just returning the favors of those who have gone before and pushed/prodded/elmered me along. That is the tradition we try to apply as custodians of the art/craft/service. > Looks like I'm gonna have to get me a piece of wood, some Fanstock > clips and start wiring. Any suggestions? Let's see..... Take a goodly piece of clear pine or spruce, perhaps 12 inches wide by 18 inches long. Oil with finest tung oil, or boiled artist's linseed oil (I prefer the linseed oil but be careful with used oily rags and brushes --- fire hazard). Mount four feet of rubber underneath, and away you go. I prefer maple first, when I can find it in the lumber yards, clear spruce second, and good ol' common 5 quarters stair tread board as a last resort. I have been known to use 3/8 or 1/2 inch clear acylic to make up breadboard chassis and superglue them together. Superglue is prime breadboard workers goop of the first water. I find 1/4 black acrylic plastic from the local plastics shop good for making binding post strips (about 1-1/8 x 6 or so inches). Also, it is good for making a front panel (to be moderately safe around HV circuits it is required). Mount the strips on some 1 inch metal or plastic standoffs. I use binding posts for terminals, when I have them, or just 1/8 inch brass screws/wing-nuts/bolts/washers. I use standard black irrigation/plumbing pipe (PVC or whatever the stuff is) for winding coils, and usually use the 2-1/2 inch size. A piece about 12 inches long works fine usually. The standard black No. 14 or No. 12 roll of household solid copper wire is great busbar stuff for wiring up the rig AND for winding coils of up to the 10 watter size. Beyond that, use 1/4 inch refrigerator copper tubing. For A supplies, I prefer a hefty nicad battery pack of 105ah, or a good brute force, well filtered (half a farad worth) DC supply rated at about 5 times the filament draw, and variaced to the right voltage (or use good 100 watt variable resistors or light bulbs [100 or 100 watters do nicely in parallel]). For B supplies, I tend to prefer a battery made up of 12 volt 7 ah sealed lead acid (some call them gel cells, but they really aren't). A battery of about 100-350 volts works fine. One of my Hartleys runs a dynamotor of 200 volts at 200 ma., that has both sides of the HV floating properly (some dynamotors don't). Dynamotors work well as long as they are filtered with about 4 mfd on the output AND are rated at about 5-10 times the required plate current, for good load regulation stability (sometimes some additional bleeder load resistance of about 50ma stabilizes dynamotors quite well). The batteries give you the most stable power and the cleanest note. I try to always key with a relay to isolate the rig from the operator. A small fast acting relay will key nicely at up to 40wpm if it has a fair to good action. I like 12vdc mercury wetted relays when I can find them as keying relays. > > 73 rich K7YHA > Send me your SASE with 5 stamps on it and I will send you some hartley info (about 25 pages worth). It should be enough to get you started. 73/ZUT DE NA4G/Bob rdkeys@csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu (Good in the callbook). ************************************************************************** * 73 TU SU VA DE NA4G ``Boat Anchor Bob'', an ol' CW fart. * ************************************************************************** * Morse has been in the family for over 100 years. * * Morse radiotelegraphy (Spark/CW) has been in the family since 1914. * ************************************************************************** * May you have fair winds and following seas on your watch at the key. * ************************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 08:27:13 -0800 (PST) >From: Stan Skelton To: glowbugs list Subject: GLOWBUGS: one tube rigs Message-ID: Subject: Glowbugs, one tube rigs Hi all...I told a lie, the one tube rigs I saw were not in QST magazine they were in CQ (Sept 95)....See below for a short description.... The rx was originally published in Boys Life magazine in the early 50's, it covers 80 & 40 meters and can be "tweaked" to handle 30 meters as well...aside from the usual jacks, common resistors, caps, a 1K pot, it uses a 3A4 tube and a 90pF or 100pF tuning capacitor (Antique Electronic supply)......are all that it needs...Oh yah, you have to wind a coil on a pill bottle, instructions are given... The tx is just as easy to put together, it uses a 1S4 tube and less than a dozen other parts (including a coil wound on a pill bottle and another tuning cap and the xtal).... Both of these rigs can be powered using batteries cause the biggest draw is the 1S4 plate which can be run on 45 vdc (5, 9v batteries)... There's lots of good construction tips in the artical, I have the tubes & sockets, just trying to find the variable caps and I'm off to the races. Anyone else out there planning to build these rigs??? OR has anyone already built them??? TtFn...Stan VE7SKT..(use glowbugs in subject line) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 12:03:40 -0500 (EST) >From: rdkeys@csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu To: sskelton@cln.etc.bc.ca Cc: rdkeys@csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu (), glowbugs@theporch.com Subject: Re: glowbugs - 1 toob rigs & hand capacitance Message-ID: <9510301703.AA100708@csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu> > > Hi Jeff et al: ...I don't have the artical in front of me but I do > remember that the receiver used a 3A4 tube and the tx used a 1A4 tube..... > They were very firm about using an aluminum chassis for the receiver to > avoid "hand capacitance",...maybe there is another way to avoid it and > still use a wooden "frame"???? > > TtFn...Stan VE7SKT..(use glowbugs in subject line) The standard way of getting around hand capacity is to use a long insulating shaft to decouple the operator from the capacitor. Also, mount the capacitors to the back of the breadboard as far as practical. See early 1920's QST for more info. There were a series of articles on ``Low Loss Tuner Design'' by Perry Briggs, and others. Recommended reading. 73/ZUT DE NA4G/Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 09:55:32 -0800 (PST) >From: Stan Skelton To: glowbugs list Subject: GLOWBUGS: Build a rig from a TV set? Message-ID: Hey guys...guess what I found ??? In QST, August 1969 is an artical called "BUILDING A NOVICE RIG FROM AN OLD TV SET".. It is definitely NOT a QRP rig, running 75 watts (input), but does look very cheap and easy to build! It uses only 2 tubes (12BY7A & 6146B) and all parts are available in a tube type TV set....(you'll need to wind your own coils etc.) Take a look, you'll be surprised! TtFn...Stan VE7SKT..(use glowbugs in subject line) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 12:41:55 -0500 (EST) >From: rdkeys@csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu To: jherman@hawaii.edu Cc: rdkeys@csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu (), glowbugs@theporch.com Subject: Re: Glowbugs Power supplys Message-ID: <9510301741.AA100744@csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu> > > Well, I'll get scolded for this, but I've see lots of 1-2 tube circuits > in the older projects books that use the 120VAC right out of the wall > (filtered, of course!) for the plate supply. Seems that rectifying > 120VAC brings it up to about 200VDC. This is a transformerless supply. > > For the safety-minded, using to transformers back-to-back will isolate > any shock hazzard. > > Let's see if Bob Keys has built any rigs that use "transformerless" > power supplies... > > Jeff NH6IL Boatanchor Bob's first rule of thumb on breadboard rigs..... Play Safe, and if In Doubt, DON'T, but Think More About it FIRST. Study CAREFULLY any potential voltage/safety gotchas. Remember, IT IS YOUR BEHIND IN THE HOTSEAT. Second rule of thumb on breadboard rigs..... Keep the voltages well within limits of what the rig and insulation will handle. Third..... Always ground the rig BEFORE hooking up any other power. Fourth..... Always make all connections at the rig FIRST before the power supply B+ or B- or filament lines. Then connect at the power supply rather than the rig. Fifth..... Always use insulated shaft couplings or LARGE insulating knobs on things to keep the fingers away from high voltage points. Use a grounded or insulating barrier panel between the operator and exposed high voltage points. If using open breadboards, BE EXTREMELY CAREFUL of voltages over 67.5 volts. (It is amazing how far out you can go with a properly applied 67.5 volts B+ or thereabouts.) 90 volts and beyond can cause heart failure inappropriately applied. Sixth..... NEVER use a transformerless supply. Always use batteries or a well grounded transformer supply. In my experiences, I have been bitten more by faulty transformerless AD/DC supplies than I care to remember. Hence for glowbugging, STAY AWAY from transformerless supplies. That be my zwei pfennigs worth on the subject. Enuf soapbox for this morning. 73/ZUT DE NA4G/Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 12:30:41 -0600 (CST) >From: Bob Roehrig To: Stan Skelton Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: GLOWBUGS: Build a rig from a TV set? Message-ID: On Mon, 30 Oct 1995, Stan Skelton wrote: > Hey guys...guess what I found ??? > > In QST, August 1969 is an artical called "BUILDING A NOVICE RIG > FROM AN OLD TV SET". It is definitely NOT a QRP rig, running 75 watts > (input), but does look very cheap and easy to build! > It uses only 2 tubes (12BY7A & 6146B) and all parts are available > in a tube type TV set....(you'll need to wind your own coils etc.) Isn't it interesting that this "build from an old TV" rig needs to use a 6146 tube !? When did you ever see a 6146 in a TV set :-) ? de Bob, K9EUI ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 11:31:23 -0800 (PST) >From: Stan Skelton To: Bruce Robertson Cc: glowbugs list Subject: Re: GLOWBUGS: one tube rigs Message-ID: Hi Bruce....We have a club here that has a LARGE supply of every tube you can think of...I got the sockets from an old record player that had been discarded by our school board....the rest are easy to get except the variable cap which I will probably have to buy.... TtFn...Stan VE7SKT..(use glowbugs in subject line) On Mon, 30 Oct 1995, Bruce Robertson wrote: > Stan, I'm thinking of building the receiver for a graduation gift for my > brother-in-law. He's very interested in the invention of the regen. Where > did you get the parts? > > 73, VE3UWL > > Bruce G. Robertson Dept. of Classics, U. of T. > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 11:46:42 -0800 >From: mjsilva@ix.netcom.com (michael silva) To: glowbugs@theporch.com Subject: Re: GLOWBUGS: Build a rig from a TV set? Message-ID: <199510301946.LAA21555@ix4.ix.netcom.com> Bob, K9EUI, wrote: > >On Mon, 30 Oct 1995, Stan Skelton wrote: > >> Hey guys...guess what I found ??? >> >> In QST, August 1969 is an artical called "BUILDING A NOVICE RIG >> FROM AN OLD TV SET". It is definitely NOT a QRP rig, running 75 watts >> (input), but does look very cheap and easy to build! >> It uses only 2 tubes (12BY7A & 6146B) and all parts are available >> in a tube type TV set....(you'll need to wind your own coils etc.) > >Isn't it interesting that this "build from an old TV" rig needs to use >a 6146 tube !? When did you ever see a 6146 in a TV set :-) ? > Yeah, I noticed that too. Though, most of those "build a rig from a TV" rigs did use a sweep tube, so it can be done (if you can still find such an old TV). I've read that 807s were used as the horizontal output tube in very early TVs, and that one of the very first "specially designed" sweep tubes, the 6BG6G, was just an 807 with an octal base, and looking at the two side by side I'd have to believe it. 73, Mike, KK6GM ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 15:43:08 -0500 (EST) >From: rdkeys@csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu To: glowbugs@theporch.com Cc: rdkeys@csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu () Subject: Hartleying tonight anyone? Message-ID: <9510302043.AA100257@csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu> Having tossed out the gauntlet and stimulated some breadboardus hackerius et etherburnus gehartleyus shenannigans from the group, is there anyone yet with their bottleburner ready for the infamous 3527 QRG? I will be on over the rest of the week, each night from about 9R30PM EST (0200Z) until about midnight (0500Z). I would welcome come rattling and banging upon the brass by any fellow glowbug burners in the night. The Hartley circuit will run on 3527 and the ancient mariner will run introductory hellos/backups on the same QRG. Put yer hackneyed ex-TV sets etc. aboard for the voyage, and stoke 'em UP! DE NA4G/BOB UP p.s. Mebbee ol' Unstable Mable will have a run finally with Galloping Gertie, Roaring Roberta, or Hiccupping Henrietta.....(:+}}..... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 09:52:44 -1000 >From: Jeffrey Herman To: Stan Skelton Subject: Re: GLOWBUGS: Build a rig from a TV set? Message-ID: Ah, a topic close to my heart. I've been collecting thrown-out TV sets for years now and have enough parts to open my own shop. One of the most vital components is the variable capacitor in the UHF tuner. My 40M VFO uses one. Those caps are build like a Sherman Tank complete with reduction gearing and even a dial (I've tried to calibrate my VFO so ch 14 on the dial coincides with 7014 and ch 83 coincides with 7183). You'll have to carefully unsolder the "rod" inductors (one has to be a magician at the UHF freqs I guess - metal rods as inductors?). Oh, the deflection coil on the yoke of the picture tube contains enough (#22??) copper wire to last you a life time - perfect for winding your own inductors. On the PC boards make sure you salvage all the coils; you can remove the windings, and you'll have a ready supply of coil forms (some cardboard, some plastic, most variable inductance but you can always remove the iron-powder core). The HV portion of the power supply should give you enough HV electrolytic capacitors for building at least one rig. You'll have plenty of low-wattage resistors and low-voltage caps for any solid state "Roundtoits" you might have lurking on the project list. Plus, a rat's nest of hook-up wire free for the taking. So, in the morning when you leave your QTH, try driving a different route each time (and when returning, too) scouting the various neighborhoods for abandoned curb-side "worthless" old TV sets. Old homebrew's motto: "I've never seen a dumpster I didn't feel the urge to dive into." 73 from Hawaii, Jeff NH6IL P.S. If you work on a college campus make sure you frequently dumpster-dive behind the engineering, physics, and CS buildings. If you live near a coastal harbor, dumpster-diving will frequently reward you with some older marine electronics just waiting to be turned into a ham rig. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 16:16:38 -0600 (CST) >From: Bob Roehrig To: michael silva Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: GLOWBUGS: Build a rig from a TV set? Message-ID: > >> In QST, August 1969 is an artical called "BUILDING A NOVICE RIG > >> FROM AN OLD TV SET". It is definitely NOT a QRP rig, running 75 watts > I've read that 807s were used as the horizontal output tube > in very early TVs, and that one of the very first "specially designed" > sweep tubes, the 6BG6G, was just an 807 with an octal base, and looking at > the two side by side I'd have to believe it. > > 73, > Mike, KK6GM > I also thought that the 6BG6 looked VERY MUCH like an 807. I'll have to see if I still have any around, or at least compare the specs in the tube manual or on my tube tester. 73 de Bob, K9EUI ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 18:08:01 -0500 (EST) >From: Bruce Robertson To: glowbugs@theporch.com Subject: GLOWBUGS www bibliography Message-ID: I have set up a web page with a preliminary bibliography of some glowbug-related articles from recent ham magazines. It is at: http://www.cch.epas.utoronto.ca:8080/~brucerob/glowbugs/glowbugs_bib.html My plan is to add your submissions from time to time and, when it is impressively long, archive it somewhere that is more permanent than my academic account. Bruce G. Robertson Dept. of Classics, U. of T. ------------------------------ End of GLOWBUGS Digest 3 ************************ --simple boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="GLO-POR0.004" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="GLO-POR0.004" GLOWBUGS Digest 4 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Gertie's Debut by rdkeys@csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu 2) GB:Gertie's Gone Bad! (fwd) by Jeffrey Herman 3) TS520 neutralization (fwd) by Stan Skelton 4) Re: Good tubes for a regen? by rdkeys@csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu 5) It Fright Night and Time for Freaky Signals by rdkeys@csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu 6) Doerle 30-30 regen by steve@hi.com (Steve Byan) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 10:51:32 -0500 (EST) >From: rdkeys@csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu To: TOM.A.ADAMS@mail.admin.wisc.edu Cc: rdkeys@csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu () Subject: Re: Gertie's Debut Message-ID: <9510311551.AA101329@csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu> > Hello Bob. > > I won't be on tonight; I'm at work now, doing the signoff trick. However, I > begin my days off cycle tomorrow. I should be around Tues - Fri, and go back > on duty Saturday night. > I'll be playing around with the rig in the vicinity of 3530 - 3540 KHz for > the next few evenings. If I have too much trouble hooking anybody I might > slide up toward the Novice band; THOSE guys would answer an intermittent neon > sign transformer! :-) I'll keep an ear open for your Hartley, and give you > a buzz if I hear you. > 73's, > Tom, K9TA Tom and other glowbuggers, a small word of caution. Be careful if you run a Hartley up in the novice band. The second harmonic, if there is one, (and there usually is a little) is a fer piece outta de 40 M band! Make sure you have some good output tuning and a single band antenna if you run it in the novice band at powers greater than about 2-3 watts output. The second harmonic could easily be a quarter watt or so. If you run it into the hamshack tuner and out the dipole or such, then there is probably sufficient filtering there to do the trick, AS LONG AS the pickup to the tuner is low impedance. At high impedance, the harmonics might just as well travel the outer braid as not. Keeping down below 3650 keeps the second harmonic ``inside'' as it were, if I am remembering where the high end of 40 fone is [I can't remember the last time I have had to consciously remember where that was...... never been that high up on fone.....(:+}}.... what's fone anyway.....must be that funky duck chatter amidst the broadcasters.....(:+}}.....ZUT!]. As food for thought, what if one were to take and fully shield a Hartley, using proper panelling, bypassing and Faraday shielding (remember that stuff?) Then run the output through lowpass filter with a cutoff of about 4.5mhz. That would make it meet the FCC specs even in the modern era, even at a KW input. Lessee, where did I put that box of 833's.....(:+}}...... Unstable Mable, move over.....Boom Boom Behemoth want's to come out and play! 73/ZUT DE NA4G/Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 05:36:45 -1000 >From: Jeffrey Herman To: Glowbugs List Subject: GB:Gertie's Gone Bad! (fwd) Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 29 Oct 1995 12:59:40 -1000 >From: TOM.A.ADAMS@mail.admin.wisc.edu To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Gertie's Gone Bad! to: boatanchors@theporch.com Greetings, Troops. Last night after work I just couldn't stand it anymore; I hooked Gallopin' Gertie, the Hartley oscillator transmitter, to a real antenna, with the intent- ion of actually WORKING somebody with it. It looks like I'm gonna get another lesson in the trials and tribulations of a Depression era ham. Gertie works beautifully in the workbench, but when connected to an antenna it ALL goes bad, big time. The note becomes so modulated that it sounds like somebody stole the choke and filter capacitors out of the supply! It sounds like a chainsaw hitting a knot. GADZOOKS! I've got RF floating around in there someplace where it shouldn't be, and stray radiation from the feedline is enough to tip the balance and make it apparent. First thought: the RF choke feeding the plate isn't doing it's job, and RF is getting back into the supply. This would seem to be confirmed partly; touch- ing a neon bulb to the individual pi windings of the choke, it lights up on all but the last winding. Applying the bulb to the "cold" end terminal (B+) doesn't light it up, but there may just be not quite enough at that point to ionize the bulb. Second thought: when reworking the basic circuit to fit the parts I had, maybe it wasn't such a good idea after all to eliminate the filiment bypass capacitors! ;-) It looks like major surgery is in order, actually a transplant; from the Atwater Kent junker set, and into Gertie. It's a basic bypass capacitorectomy. We'll keep you posted. BTW, a tip for those still building. Don't hardwire the configuration of the coupling circuit in your rig. Leave yourself some flexibility to cope with the unexpected. I couldn't get Gertie to load into the feeder of my Windom when the link and loading cap were set up in a series configuration. That was a bit surprising, but what the heck. The rig loaded beautifully when a clip lead was added and the ground lead moved, reconfiguring the link as a parallel tuned circuit. In fact, she loaded SO well that I had to go scratching around for another flashlight bulb tuning indicator; she took it out in a blaze of glory! The permanent fix is just a matter of adding a couple more fahnestock clips to provide jumpering options. No biggie. Also, it's a good idea to dispense with the notion of going for an ultra- miniature rig; leave some extra breadboard space, even if you wind up never needing it. I did so and I'm now glad of it; I wound up needing someplace to put an extra fixed padding capacitor for the link circuit. Hey, these things happen. What looks good on a scratch pad and what actually winds up as the finished rig are often two very different animals. Just allow for it. 73's, Tom, K9TA ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 08:26:55 -0800 (PST) >From: Stan Skelton To: glowbugs list Subject: TS520 neutralization (fwd) Message-ID: I picked this up of qrp-l (sorry for any duplication) but this seems to me to be important enough to say a couple of times! 73's Stan...VE7SKT ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 11:14:52 EST >From:PDouglas12@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: TS520 neutralization Hi Ying, This is a follow up to my info on the TS 520. This concerns only one aspect, tube neutralization when installing new final tubes. First, don't do this without old time help, if you can get it. The voltages on these tubes is in excess of 700 and there is enough current available to fry you like a hot dog. That said, the minimal rules are use a well insulated screw driver and keep one hand in your back pocket--really. If you don't know this rule and the why of it, you have no business doing this job in my opinion. The final tubes of these rigs (the 520 series, the 820/830 series and the Yaesu equivalents like the FT101s) are a push pull pair generally. They have a certain amount of stray reactance which must be cancelled out (neutralized) by adjusting a capacitor with a screwdriver. The cap is inside the high voltage cage, reached through a hole in the sheet metal with the shaft of the driver. Trouble is, the cap must be adjusted with the power on, so be damn careful what you touch with the blade and keep your hand on the insulated handle. Adjust for lowest idling current, I think, but WIDRFM (when in doubt read the friggin' manual). You can DIE if you screw up. Since I feel this is a safety issue, andyou are the fifth inquiry about the 6146 tube rigs, I am posting this caution to the QRP-L, even though it isn't QRP related per se. (On the other hand, these rigs ought to be QRP-capable with reduced drive and they are cheap and very good.) We don't want QRPers to become SKs. I assume the guys over at boat anchors all know this stuff already! Be careful. 72, Preston WJ2V ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 14:34:34 -0500 (EST) >From: rdkeys@csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu To: mjsilva@ix.netcom.com (michael silva) Cc: rdkeys@csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu (), glowbugs@theporch.com Subject: Re: Good tubes for a regen? Message-ID: <9510311934.AA101728@csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu> > > You wrote: > > >(I prefer triodes usually to pentodes). > > That's interesting. I know that the Handbook had a 6SN7 regen in it > for what seemed like decades, but most of the others I've seen used a > pentode detector once they were available (e.g. 6J7). What is it that > causes you to prefer the triode? > > 73, > Mike, KK6GM > > I am glad someone finally asked. I have tried many methods of regeneration control, but always seem to fall back to what works best in my hands. Triodes and a throttle condenser with properly set fixed tickler. I have been known to hook up variometer coils and use the variometer section as the general tickler setting control and fine tune with the throttle condenser. For some reason, throttle condenser control works the best. Since I don't need to worry about screen biasing, proper impedance matching, etc., it is much simpler and still works magnificently. There is something to be said for stupidly simple designs. I use 250-500pf for throttle control, and a good RF choke downstream side of the throttle condenser. That is important to make the throttle work correctly. I have played with commercial rigs from the maritime services that use triodes (SE-143, SE-1220, SE-1440, IP-501A) as well as pentodes (RAL, RAK, Mackay 1003, RMCA AR-8506). The commercial rigs all seem to work about the same but they have taken great pains to make the biasing and voltages and controls of proper values and ranges. Hams don't seem to do this quite as well for some reason. But, when it is all said and done, my favorite regenerator of all is the classic IP-501A (using triodes ['01A's]). Second is the RAL/RAK using pentodes. Third is the Mackay tied with the RMCA using pentodes. Of the homebrew stuff, I always use triodes. The voltages used on the tubes makes a big difference, as does the coupling method. At low plate voltages, triodes are better detectors. I routinely use about 24-48 volts on the plates and that is sufficient to blow the tin cans off yer head, properly set up. A pair of 76's or 27's in a detector and one step configuration using transformer or impedance coupling with 48 volts on the plates will hear just about anything that the Kenwooooooowhoie will hear (but the dial calibration is not as nice.....(:+{{.....). If high voltages are used (beyond 90 volts dc) then pentodes become better detectors (although not necessarily more sensitive). They also backradiate less to the antenna. But, it is a real trick to get smooth, noiseless regeneration control using the generic pots one finds in the junque box. I have replaced many pots on pentode designs over the years. My choice is a detector and two step using transformer coupling with 6J5 tubes and throttle control of the detector with maybe 36-48 volts on the plates and no more. Use about 10 megs grid leak with 100pf grid condenser, and a 365pf throttle condenser. Couple to the antenna with a 1 turn link and no more to the cold end of the coil or with a 1/2 inch square pair of aluminum plates spaced about 1/32 inch apart to the grid. A single plate tuning capacitor of about 15pf with a good velvet vernier and no additional capacitance makes for good tuning (at most pad with less then 20 pf or so to hit the band edges exactly --- a better way is to properly wind the coil in the first place to give the bottom of the band with full capacitor mesh). Use 1:3 audio coupling transformers for each stage and that works fine. Mount the detector, transformers and audio tubes all on one plate of about 3 x 10 inches bakelite or aluminum and shock mount using rubber bushings to the main breadboard or chassis box. Other good tubes are 6SN7, 12AT7, and if you can find them 76's and 27's or 56's. I have never tried acorns, but my guess it that they would work quite well (955 type). Of the lot, my best results have been with 76's or 27's, but nothing beats that warm fuzzy feeling with a dim orange-yellow glow on a triplet of '01A's...... (alas I only have one set left of those, and only fire them up on special occasions). I sense a special occasion is coming up with a'Hartleying at hand.....(:+}}..... 73/ZUT DE NA4G/Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 16:08:53 -0500 (EST) >From: rdkeys@csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu To: glowbugs@theporch.com Cc: rdkeys@csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu () Subject: It Fright Night and Time for Freaky Signals Message-ID: <9510312108.AA101852@csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu> Well, it is about time to pull the plug 'ere an' go fires up the Frankenstein rigs with whirring motors, sparking relays, glowing firebottles, an' such fine assorted accoutrements therewith to make all hallow's eve a fine nite to be travelling out upon the ether....... QRG 3525/QTR 0300Z...... See you there for a round o' Hartleying, goblins, and other assorted fine shrieks in the night..... 73/ZUT DE NA4G/Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 16:02:03 -0400 >From: steve@hi.com (Steve Byan) To: glowbugs@theporch.com Subject: Doerle 30-30 regen Message-ID: I'm curious about the workings of the Doerle 30-30 regenerative receiver design. (I've seen this several places: Lindsay's reprint of the "Hammarlund Short Wave Manual", Lindsay's reprint of Gernbacks "1934 Official Shortwave Radio Manual", and the back of Ingram's "Keys Keys Keys". Briefly, the design uses a type-30 triode detector that is transformer coupled to a type-30 audio amp. My "curiousity" is that the audio amp doesn't seem to have a source of grid bias - no C battery, no cathode resistor. I'm guessing it uses the voltage drop across filament as the bias. Seems kinda iffy to me. Just how *does* this thing work? Regards, -Steve Steve Byan internet: steve@hi.com Hitachi Computer Products (America), Inc. 1601 Trapelo Road phone: (617) 890-0444 Waltham, MA 02154 FAX: (617) 890-4998 ------------------------------ End of GLOWBUGS Digest 4 ************************  --simple boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="GLO-POR0.005" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="GLO-POR0.005" GLOWBUGS Digest 5 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) GB:Cake Pan Xmitters by joe@westonia.com (Joseph Cooper) 2) Re: GB:Gertie's Gone Bad! (fwd) by weinfurtner@ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu (Greg Weinfurtner) 3) Re: GB:Gertie's Gone Bad! (output link coupling) by rdkeys@csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu 4) Re: Doerle 30-30 regen by rdkeys@csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu (by way of steve@hi.com (Steve Byan)) 5) Re: Doerle 30-30 regen by rdkeys@csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu (by way of steve@hi.com (Steve Byan)) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 31 Oct 95 22:56 EST >From: joe@westonia.com (Joseph Cooper) To: glowbugs@theporch.com Subject: GB:Cake Pan Xmitters Message-ID: One of the things that I hope that this group can do is start to re-discover some of the old xmitters featured in the hobby magazines of the 1950's and 60's which used tube designs. One style that I remember was the 'Cake Pan' design, where a square cake pan was used as the chassis for the set. There were certainly others. Now the other thing is that xmiters were not the only thing done with tubes. I'm interested in that triode out board RF amp for my S-38 project. Is is possible to have more details on what went into it ? I also came across a design for a TR switch that used a 6 watt lamp and two diodes. The lamp was connected to the receiver side, and the theory was that when the RF hit the lamp and heated the filliment, the resistance went so high it prevented any current from hitting the receivers front end. Anything that strayed in was stopped by the diodes. When the RF stopped, the resistance dropped to a level that allowed the recvr to work. Now this raises the question of how to share the curcuit diagram with you. Do we have a FTP site ? I tried suggesting attachments to the emails once in QRP-L once and had to wear an asbestos suit for a week. Any ideas ? =================================================================== * Joseph Cooper-VE3FMQ QTH-East York-near Toronto Ontario Canada * * Interests are:-Lowfer/VLF/BCB Radio-Woodworking-Steam Railroads * * -Nikola Tesla-Antique Radios-Crystal Radios-Travel-Burmese Cats * * FAX (416) 423-7782 9:00pm to 5:00pm EDST Monday To Friday Only * =================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 07:51:30 -0400 >From: weinfurtner@ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu (Greg Weinfurtner) To: glowbugs@theporch.com Subject: Re: GB:Gertie's Gone Bad! (fwd) Message-ID: > > Gertie works beautifully in the workbench, but when connected to an antenna >it ALL goes bad, big time. The note becomes so modulated that it sounds like >somebody stole the choke and filter capacitors out of the supply! It sounds >like a chainsaw hitting a knot. > > GADZOOKS! I've got RF floating around in there someplace where it shouldn't >be, and stray radiation from the feedline is enough to tip the balance and make >it apparent. > Glowbuggers, Jeff had a lot of good stuff in this letter!, but I deleted it for sake of bandwidth. I've ran into the same problem with a 6AQ5 oscillator (40mtr) feeding a parallel tank circuit and a half wave filter (remember those from the ol' hanbooks, to check them nasty harmonics?). The thing would start "galloping" even tho the antenna was 50 ohm 0j! (thru a tuner) The output link is a few turns wound over the parallel tank windings. I found that if I reduced the number of turns in the output winding (in other words, using only 4 turns instead of 6) it stablized it completely. The output power is about 4 usable watts instead of 5 watts unusable! Reducing the loading helped me, may be that it will help some one else out there. **************************************************************** * NN N SSSSS 888888 OOOOO Greg Weinfurtner AEE BSS * * N N N S 8 8 O O Electronic Design Splst * * N N N SSSSS 888888 O O Ohio University Athens * * N N N S 8 8 O O * * N NN SSSSS 888888 OOOOO * * Canst thou send lightnings * * Amateur Radio NS8O that they may go and say * * unto thee,'Here we are'? * * weinfurtner@ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu Job 38:35 * **************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 10:37:33 -0500 (EST) >From: rdkeys@csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu To: weinfurtner@ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu Cc: rdkeys@csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu (), glowbugs@theporch.com Subject: Re: GB:Gertie's Gone Bad! (output link coupling) Message-ID: <9511011537.AA102902@csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu> > > Glowbuggers, > Jeff had a lot of good stuff in this letter!, but I deleted it for > sake of bandwidth. I've ran into the same problem with a 6AQ5 oscillator > (40mtr) feeding a parallel tank circuit and a half wave filter (remember > those from the ol' hanbooks, to check them nasty harmonics?). The thing > would start "galloping" even tho the antenna was 50 ohm 0j! (thru a tuner) > The output link is a few turns wound over the parallel tank > windings. I found that if I reduced the number of turns in the output > winding (in other words, using only 4 turns instead of 6) it stablized it > completely. The output power is about 4 usable watts instead of 5 watts > unusable! Reducing the loading helped me, may be that it will help some > one else out there. > Greg Weinfurtner > weinfurtner@ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu On further thoughts regarding output coupling. I might suggest fellows try a ONE or TWO turn link maximum for coupling to a 50 ohm load. I will leave the computations to the theorists amongst us, but in my hands, for low impedance coupling out of early rigs, keep the link to the smallest number of turns and the least amount of coupling possible to get the expected output (50% max on amplifier rigs and 33% max on oscillator rigs --- remember that overloading is an invitation to squirrel city on early rigs). More than that and modern tuners get rather off on their own. Remember that modern tuners are designed to see an input of close to 50 ohms. If you want to work higher input impedances, to read Art Collins original Pi-net article back about 1933 in QST. In my hands, a single turn or two turn link always works best. The only reason to use more than that is if the antenn tuner is built into the rig as a series or parallel output tank. Then it can be link coupled with more turns or merely inductively coupled directly to the antenna coil with proper spacing and phasing. In the case of the 6AQ5 oscillator, perhaps you might try a two turn or one turn link if the coupling is that tight. Also, you might try looser coupling of say 1/2 to 1 inch spacing between the link and the cold end of the tank coil to improve things. Remember, there will be a point of overcoupling called ``critical coupling'' beyond which point one invites the nasties into the rig. This will vary with the rig and its stability, and the amount of power being drawn from the tube. Back in the early spark days, overcoupling beyond critical was verboten since it tended to allow emission on two wavelengths, that of the tank circuit and that of the antenna circuit. I have heard of this happening on tube circuits also, in the early days. So, couple up from loose to tighter and never go beyond about 50-75% of critical coupling. My experiences indicate the Tenessee Valley Injuns and Squirrel Society will invade the rig, fer sure. That aside..... fire up them thar globugs an' let's burn a few more holes in the ether......(:+}}..... I keep trying ta gets youse fellers aboard the watch in the wee small hours when the band quiets down some, but nary a peep, or is that a chrip, yet.....(:+}}..... 73/ZUT DE NA4G/Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 16:58:01 -0400 >From: rdkeys@csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu (by way of steve@hi.com (Steve Byan)) To: glowbugs@theporch.com Subject: Re: Doerle 30-30 regen Message-ID: > I'm curious about the workings of the Doerle 30-30 regenerative receiver > design. (I've seen this several places: Lindsay's reprint of the > "Hammarlund Short Wave Manual", Lindsay's reprint of Gernbacks "1934 > Official Shortwave Radio Manual", and the back of Ingram's "Keys Keys > Keys". Briefly, the design uses a type-30 triode detector that is > transformer coupled to a type-30 audio amp. Fine basic design that goes back to WWI era, in things like the Navy SE-xxx series receivers. Also the basic design was popular in ham circles from about 1924 or so onward. > My "curiousity" is that the audio amp doesn't seem to have a source of grid > bias - no C battery, no cathode resistor. I'm guessing it uses the voltage > drop across filament as the bias. Seems kinda iffy to me. Just how *does* > this thing work? > > Regards, > -Steve How's about that.....! There is no bias. It is operating in zero bias mode, hence will have some significant distortion, but that matters nary a bit on CW. Actually some small bit of bias is generated across the filament in a filamentary tube, but not in an indirectly heated cathode tube. If I remember my theory correctly, the thing is simply reproducing the output ``approximately'' from the input. Any triode or other tube will do that with no bias. For best audio reproduction and no distorted wave forms, some bias is introduced quite often. That usually amounts to a 1.5 to 4.5 volt battery in the low side of the transformer grid end for the early receivers. The bias battery merely jacks the signal up or down some point on the operating characteristic curve, depending upon how much bias is there. There will be some point of ``most class-A'' like reproduction. At low plate voltages, less and less bias is required to make the tube function acceptably. At very low plate voltages, it will even kill off the amplification. At lower plate voltages, even no bias works quite acceptably, even though some distortion occurs because of going off the end of the characteristic curve. For most kinds of signals that does not matter, unless you are trying to reproduce AM accurately. On SSB or especially on CW, it does not matter if some distortion occurs. Distorted SSB sounds a bit ducky, but SSB was not used in ham circles back then, only on commercial circuits. On CW, the distortion allows generation of harmonics in the audio output, which give a clear true ring to the tone (actually quite nice, and not as dead sounding as a modern kenwoodie). None of the receivers I have built has ever used C-bias batteries. Not required. Too much trouble to fiddle with and adjust properly. (It requires a potentiometer across the C-battery to adjust the bias for the best part of the characteristic curve for the PARTICULAR plate voltage used at the time. Fixed C-bias is usually a kludge approximation. Bias voltages run as follows for the '01A. Plate Voltage --- Bias -C Battery ************************************** 40 0.5-1.0 60 1.0-3.0 80 3.0-4.5 100 4.5-6.0 120 6.0-9.0 For the WD11 and WD-12, up to 45 volts on the plate the bias is 0 vdc. The UV-199 follows the '01A pretty closely. So, at low voltages, none is required. At higher voltages some may be required, but not necessary all the time. But, keep the tube within specs as to plate current if no bias is used. 73/ZUT DE NA4G/Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 16:58:41 -0400 >From: rdkeys@csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu (by way of steve@hi.com (Steve Byan)) To: glowbugs@theporch.com Subject: Re: Doerle 30-30 regen Message-ID: > > Hi Bob, > > Thanks for the info. Didn't see an echo on Glowbugs; would you mind if I > forwarded the reply to the list? Sure > You wrote that running the audio amp in "class B" (no bias) is OK for CW > but not so hot for AM. On theoretical grounds (since I haven't yet built > one of these beasties) I agree with you. Which is why I'm a bit confused, > because the Doerle was written up in the Gernsback book and the Hammarlund > book as a shortwave broadcast receiver - i.e. AM modulation. But, for tin can use and not audiophile purist use, AM will come through with an acceptably low distortion level. As the voltage would be increased as for example a pentode rx that ran on 250vdc, then the distortion would probably make the AM signal a bit hard to read. On shortwave or ham AM that would probably not make much difference. On commercial AM broadcasting, it would probably give for a rather poor sounding reproduction in even a small loudspeaker. Hence, for a tightwad ham willing to put up with maybe 10% signal distortion (hell, he would probably not even know what distortion was, nor what biasing was all about if he was building his first generation Doerle receiver, right?). Ma and Pa Kettle listening to the President's Fireside Chats, would probably be a bit concerned that something was not quite right with the ol' battery radio. Folks at the Guildersleeve residence would probably be a bit peeved. > Guess I'll have to wire one up and see for myself. Do, it will be an interesting experience. Put a scope on the output to see the waveform and then a bias battery and pot somewhat like this: +-------+ / Bias battery no. 1 - 4.5vdc \ R1 | / | from grid xfmr low side------- > \ +-------to filament return / | / Bias battery no. 2 - 4.5vdc \ R1 | / | +-------+ Then vary the bias from +4.5vdc to -4.5vdc and watch the waveform on weak and then on strong signals. When I teach our local club class (a lecture or two with the ARRL series) I have a breadboard 1 tube amp with a 6J5, some transformers, some speakers (one as mike one as reproducer), and a CPO for an audio source. One can easily see the effect of distortion on the output waveform, even though some 10-20 factor of gain is obtained. With the above hookup, you can see on the O-scope the effect of distortion and bias (assuming all is working as it should). > I kinda took a liking to the "ARRL Handbook" receiver in the Hammarlund > book. A type -30 detector with throttle capacitor for regen conntrol, > transformer coupled to a type -33 pentode audio amp, with a C battery for > fixed bias. The 33 pentode would be operating probably at 90 or 135 volts and would have some distortion without the bias. > Like you said in another post; it's amazing how simple the old designs can be. > > Regards, > -Steve I love the simplicity. A couple of nights back I had my 1 tuber regenerator on 80 meters and with only 24 volts on the plate, it picked up an amazing array of signals. At 48 volts it was armchair copy mostly. At 67.5 volts it was beginning to distort. The companion 2 tuber with 76's will blow yer tin cans off yer head at 36 volts and above. At 90 volts, the distortion begins to be very noticable at zero bias. Also the amp plate current begins to get a bit much for the 76. With all this chattering going on, I may have to throw another one together. I have some fine coil material and a couple of variometer coils from WWII GP7 transmitter tuning units. Rewound full of bell wire (about 50 turns) they tune 80 meters perfectly. I can see it now.....6J5 detctor, 6J5 1st audio, 6J5 second audio, all on a floating plate. Big variometer coils with good range, throttle condensers, and a set of 6 inch 1-100 bakelite knobs I have been saving for a long time......hmmmm....... 73/ZUT DE NA4G/Bob ------------------------------ End of GLOWBUGS Digest 5 ************************  --simple boundary--